Legislature(2013 - 2014)BARNES 124

02/25/2014 08:00 AM House ADMINISTRATIVE REGULATION REVIEW


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08:01:42 AM Start
08:02:33 AM Proposed Regulations for Dcced: Board of Architects, Engineers, & Land Surveyors, 12 Aac 02.110
08:22:04 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Proposed Regulations TELECONFERENCED
DCCED: Architects, Engineers, & Land Surveyors,
12 AAC 02.110
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
           ADMINISTRATIVE REGULATION REVIEW COMMITTEE                                                                         
                       February 25, 2014                                                                                        
                           8:01 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Lora Reinbold, Chair                                                                                             
Senator Cathy Giessel, Vice Chair                                                                                               
Representative Mike Hawker                                                                                                      
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Geran Tarr                                                                                                       
Senator Hollis French                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PROPOSED REGULATIONS FOR DCCED: BOARD OF ARCHITECTS~ ENGINEERS~                                                                 
& LAND SURVEYORS~ 12 AAC 02.110                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SARA CHAMBERS, Professional Licensing Operations Manager                                                                        
Division of Corporations, Business, and Professional Licensing                                                                  
Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented proposed regulation 12 AAC                                                                     
02.110.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ERIC ERIKSEN                                                                                                                    
State Board of Registration for Architects, Engineers, and Land                                                                 
Surveyors                                                                                                                       
Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  During review of the proposed regulations,                                                               
12 AAC 02.110, answered questions.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:01:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LORA  REINBOLD called the Administrative  Regulation Review                                                             
Committee meeting to  order at 8:01 a.m.   Representatives Hawker                                                               
and Reinbold  and Senators  Giessel and  Stevens were  present at                                                               
the call to order.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:02:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  REINBOLD  explained  that  the  Administrative  Regulation                                                               
Review  Committee  has the  power  to  hold public  hearings  and                                                               
examine   all   regulations,  including   proposed   regulations,                                                               
amendments,  and  orders  of repeal,  to  determine  if  properly                                                               
implemented per legislative intent.   The committee also provides                                                               
comments to the  governor and state agencies in  order to promote                                                               
needed  revisions  or  repeal  of   regulations  that  have  been                                                               
adopted.   When the committee  determines a regulation  should be                                                               
repealed  or amended,  the  committee  can introduce  legislation                                                               
that supersedes or nullifies the regulation.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
^Proposed Regulations for DCCED:  Board of Architects, Engineers,                                                               
& Land Surveyors, 12 AAC 02.110                                                                                                 
Proposed Regulations for DCCED: Board of Architects, Engineers,                                                             
                & Land Surveyors, 12 AAC 02.110                                                                             
                                                                                                                              
8:03:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR REINBOLD  then announced  that the  only order  of business                                                               
would be the  proposed regulation 12 AAC 02.110 for  the Board of                                                               
Architects, Engineers, & Land  Surveyors, Department of Commerce,                                                               
Community & Economic Development (DCCED).                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:03:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SARA   CHAMBERS,  Professional   Licensing  Operations   Manager,                                                               
Division of  Corporations, Business, and  Professional Licensing,                                                               
Department  of   Commerce,  Community  &   Economic  Development,                                                               
explained that  the State Board  of Registration  for Architects,                                                               
Engineers, and Land Surveyors ("Board")  has initiated the public                                                               
process for  proposed regulations that  would allow the  Board to                                                               
continue  doing  business   as  it  does  now,   but  to  utilize                                                               
technological  advances available  from the  examination company.                                                               
The exam  for the engineers and  land surveyors has moved  from a                                                               
process  in which  the division  receives  applications and  then                                                               
approves  applications to  take the  exam.   Once applicants  are                                                               
approved to take the exam,  the division forwards the applicant's                                                               
information  to the  examination company.   Because  many of  the                                                               
testing  companies are  using new  technology  to streamline  the                                                               
process,  examinees can  now apply  directly  to the  examination                                                               
company  and take  the exam  electronically,  which bypasses  the                                                               
Board and  reduces the division's  workload.   However, bypassing                                                               
the Board  registration results in  the Board not knowing  who is                                                               
working in a pre-licensure state  within Alaska.  Currently, it's                                                               
known who  has applied and  who has  been approved to  apply, and                                                               
thus the division knows who is  practicing in the state in a sort                                                               
of   limited  trainee   capacity.     Therefore,  this   proposed                                                               
regulation  would  provide  the  Board a  low  impact  method  of                                                               
maintaining   awareness    of   who   is   practicing    in   the                                                               
apprentice/training capacity,  such that  they can  be monitored.                                                               
There  is  not  a  high threshold  proposed  for  application  as                                                               
basically, the  applicant has  to take the  exam, pass  the exam,                                                               
and pay a nominal fee for  application as they currently do.  The                                                               
aforementioned  would  allow  the  division  to  know  who  these                                                               
individuals  are,  how they  are  credentialed,  and be  able  to                                                               
provide that service as they move toward licensure.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:08:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR REINBOLD directed attention  to a memorandum dated February                                                               
17, 2014,  from Legislative Legal  Services, which says  "... the                                                               
proposed  regulations  are  beyond the  authority  granted  under                                                               
existing  statutes,   which  do   not  appear  to   authorize  --                                                               
explicitly or implicitly  -- the Board to  regulate 'in training'                                                               
engineers or surveyors."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. CHAMBERS  acknowledged that concern,  but related  her belief                                                               
that  the  Board  intends  to continue  to  accomplish  the  same                                                               
business practice they  currently have.  Because  the Board would                                                               
be relieved of one of the  tools through the new exam application                                                               
process, the  mechanism is a certification  process that wouldn't                                                               
place any additional burden on  the in training applicant.  Since                                                               
the Board  proposes to  achieve the  same goal  with a  term that                                                               
would  normally   exist  in  statute  clearly   delineated  as  a                                                               
certification  process,  the  department  is  not  proposing  any                                                               
change in  the ultimate result.   The department merely  wants an                                                               
opportunity to  maintain that business  practice.   She suggested                                                               
that perhaps some of the language is the stumbling block.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:10:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GIESSEL  inquired as  to the  authority under  which [the                                                               
State Board  of Registration for Architects,  Engineers, and Land                                                               
Surveyors] operates currently.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CHAMBERS   answered  that  the  Board   operates  under  its                                                               
authority to require  applicants to be approved  prior to sitting                                                               
for  the exam.    In  further response  to  Senator Giessel,  Ms.                                                               
Chambers pointed out  that under the proposed  regulations 12 AAC                                                               
36.062(d)  existing language  being  deleted  specifies that  "an                                                               
applicant's education  and experience must meet  the requirements                                                               
of this subsection."  Therefore, the Board is  the authority that                                                               
determines  who  meets  the requirements  and  is  the  approving                                                               
authority for those to apply for  the exam.  Ms. Chambers offered                                                               
to obtain more information.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:12:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GIESSEL  highlighted that the  boards, in terms  of their                                                               
authority,  don't operate  under Alaska  Administrative Code  but                                                               
rather under  statute.  She  clarified that she is  interested in                                                               
the statutory  authority that allowed Alaska  Administrative Code                                                               
to be written by the Board.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. CHAMBERS stated that statutory  authority is specified in the                                                               
proposed  regulations.    She informed  the  committee  that  the                                                               
statutory authority for  12 AAC 36.063(a)(1) is  AS 08.48.101, AS                                                               
08.48.171, and AS 08.48.181.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:13:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  REINBOLD,  according  to the  Legislative  Legal  Services                                                               
memorandum, pointed  out that AS  08.48 seems to suggest  that in                                                               
training engineers or surveyors are not covered under AS 08.48.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:13:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CHAMBERS  reiterated  that  this is  a  proposal  to  obtain                                                               
information that the Board has  received via the approval process                                                               
through  another administrative  tool,  both of  which allow  the                                                               
Board to know who is practicing  in Alaska.  The Board's existing                                                               
tool  is  the application  for  examination,  which provides  the                                                               
Board the knowledge as to who  is practicing in Alaska because it                                                               
knows who has  applied for the exam and who  has passed the exam.                                                               
The  [proposed] tool  would be  [for  the applicant]  to let  the                                                               
Board and  the division know they  have passed the exam  and plan                                                               
to practice  in Alaska.   Ms. Chambers  highlighted that  the net                                                               
effect is the same, but the tool  to arrive at that net effect is                                                               
different.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:14:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER  directed attention  to the  last paragraph                                                               
in  the  Legislative Legal  Services  memorandum,  which says  "I                                                               
raised  these  concerns  with   the  Assistant  Attorney  General                                                               
working  with the  Board on  these regulations  and the  attorney                                                               
agreed that  AS 08.48 does not  appear to authorize the  Board to                                                               
regulate 'in  training' surveyors and engineers."   Therefore, he                                                               
suggested the  division should seek counsel  from the [Department                                                               
of Law] to draft legislation  that expands the authority [for the                                                               
Board  to  regulate  in  training  surveyors  and  engineers]  as                                                               
appropriate.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CHAMBERS  noted  her appreciation  for  the  suggestion  and                                                               
welcomed  the  committee's assistance.    She  then informed  the                                                               
committee that  the division's attorney  advised the  division to                                                               
continue forward with public comment.   However, if [legislation]                                                               
is  the  best  manner  in  which to  move  forward,  it  will  be                                                               
considered and discussed, she remarked.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:16:48 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS opined that from  an applicant's perspective, the                                                               
process seems backwards.  He asked  if an applicant always has to                                                               
take the exam prior to obtaining approval to take the exam.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CHAMBERS  explained  that  currently  an  applicant  has  to                                                               
receive Board  approval prior to  taking the exam.   The proposal                                                               
is  to remove  Board  approval  from the  process  such that  the                                                               
applicant would  work directly with  the examination  company and                                                               
then provide proof of taking the  exam in order to receive the in                                                               
training recognition.   In further  response to  Senator Stevens,                                                               
Ms. Chambers confirmed  that no one would  receive approval until                                                               
after taking the exam.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:18:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER asked whether the  Board has a problem with                                                               
the proposed regulations  and whether there would  be any problem                                                               
with   bringing  statutory   authority  to   do  so   before  the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:18:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ERIC  ERIKSEN,  State  Board   of  Registration  for  Architects,                                                               
Engineers,  and  Land Surveyors,  said  he  didn't believe  there                                                               
would be  any concern with Representative  Hawker's suggestion as                                                               
the intent  is to take advantage  of technology in order  to make                                                               
the process more efficient for registrants.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:19:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR REINBOLD, upon  determining no one else  wished to testify,                                                               
closed public testimony.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:19:52 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GIESSEL  recommended that assistant attorney  general who                                                               
provides services  for the  Board should  be listened  to because                                                               
he/she was  trying to guide  the Board  such that it  stays under                                                               
its statutory  authority.   The Board  is constrained  by statute                                                               
and  can't  create  that  authority   as  it  comes  through  the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:20:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR REINBOLD  reminded the committee that  AS 24.08.036 directs                                                               
agencies to include  in fiscal notes a specific time  in which an                                                               
agency will adopt, amend, or repeal  a regulation.  If the agency                                                               
is unable to  reach the set deadline, the agency  shall set a new                                                               
deadline and  report to this  committee the new deadline  and the                                                               
reasons for  the new deadline.   She informed the  committee that                                                               
from her  count there  are seven bills  that passed  last session                                                               
that  have not  met this  requirement.   Therefore, she  said she                                                               
would be  reaching out to those  agencies in order to  ensure the                                                               
statute is adhered to.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:21:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER suggested  that  the chair  send a  formal                                                               
letter  on   behalf  of  the  Administrative   Regulation  Review                                                               
Committee to  the agency requesting  they formulate  statute that                                                               
makes  it  clear they  have  authority  to impose  this  proposed                                                               
regulation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR REINBOLD agreed to do so.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:22:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There  being  no  further  business  before  the  committee,  the                                                               
Administrative Regulation Review  Committee meeting was adjourned                                                               
at 8:22 a.m.                                                                                                                    

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